Black flag?

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Gazza
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Black flag?

Post by Gazza »

A bit harsh if you ask me. Worse things have seen drive throughs or time penalties. Especially when the ruling was brought in last minute, with little time to practise. He was not the only one caught out. Spotting the pit board can be difficult at 200mph whilst concentrating on slip streaming another rider.

Possibly a deliberate attempt to keep the championship alive.... and the sponsors interested.

A tragedy if the championship is lost on this.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Coddy »

Not really,
Rules are rules.
Everyone told to pit end of lap 9 or 10.
He pitted end of lap 11. So either the team put the pit board out a lap late by mistake, or he didn't see the pit board.
He has already said he acknowledges the teams mistake, so he's blaming the pit board coming out too late.
I imagine we will see an angry Marquez in the next race at Japan.

Think the pit lane speed limit being extended for the exit was wrong and they were lucky it didn't result in a big crash. Very fast first corner.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Dickie »

The riders were under strict instructions to pit on lap 9 or 10 for safety reasons. Black flag was the correct decision.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Gazza »

Coddy wrote:Not really,
Rules are rules.
Everyone told to pit end of lap 9 or 10.
He pitted end of lap 11. So either the team put the pit board out a lap late by mistake, or he didn't see the pit board.
He has already said he acknowledges the teams mistake, so he's blaming the pit board coming out too late.
I imagine we will see an angry Marquez in the next race at Japan.

Think the pit lane speed limit being extended for the exit was wrong and they were lucky it didn't result in a big crash. Very fast first corner.
It seems the whole team misunderstood the rule. He was told to boxat the end of lap eleven and that's what he did.

Disagree with both of you. Black flag was rather severe. Drive through would have been fairer and more entertaining for the paying spectators, world wide. A black flag suits the sponsors.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Coddy »

The black flag was for breaking a rule put there for the riders safety.
As you know 'safety is our number 1 priority, blah blah blah'.
If it had been for a more minor issue , agree, a ride though or 10 second penalty.

More importantly, gutted for Redding in moto2.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Kaybe »

They fu$£ed up It was a :nono
So pay a heavy penalty.

I am sure they were all told before the race started if you don't pit for the safety reasons given then you will be black flagged. :deal
They could have sought clarity of what they were going to do.

Now at the end of the day it was probably human error and seems harse, but I suspect Marques might still face the wrath of the rules when they review the pit exit stunt and get a penalty point that will put him at the back of the grid next race.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by al »

Black flag was the correct decision for both his safety and the safety of the others on the track.

What was the score with the penalty Pedrosa was suppsed to get for speding in the pit? It flashed up that he was to loose a position but at the end of the race he was given 2nd?

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian).

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Bubba13t »

Marques passed dani after penalty handed out, I say passed rather than let through so not sure if that counts..Marques or dani appeared to arrive at pit lane speed limit too fast too..nothing said....

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Big Little Dave »

In my view with the pit exit speeds they should have shortened the 60 limit so the riders can get more speed before they get back on the track. Was going to happen to somebody but unfortunately it was Lorenzo and Marquez. And with Marquez not pitting when he was supposed to, well it Bridgestone's fault for not making a decent tyre that could stand up to the track (not that I'm biased and like Michelin's) :roll

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Ratz »

Typical I miss a race and some huge controversy happens!!!!!

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Coully »

ultimately, they are professionals, they should have taken on board the rule changes. As for team tactics, what was to be gained from staying a lap longer than lorenzo, surely pit at the same time and take your chance to get out quicker?

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Coddy »

Bubba13t wrote:Marques passed dani after penalty handed out, I say passed rather than let through so not sure if that counts..Marques or dani appeared to arrive at pit lane speed limit too fast too..nothing said....
Agree, Pedrosa never let Marquez through. Marquez over took him.
But at the end of the day, Lorenzo, Marquez and Pedrosa are head and shoulders above any of the rest.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Gazza »

Coddy wrote:The black flag was for breaking a rule put there for the riders safety.
As you know 'safety is our number 1 priority, blah blah blah'.
If it had been for a more minor issue , agree, a ride though or 10 second penalty.

More importantly, gutted for Redding in moto2.
Isn't a jump start or overtaking under a yellow flag also breaking the rules? Both constitute far more of a safety risk than coming off a lap late. There was clearly no advantage to doing so.

The exiting of the pit lane incident was entirely the fault of race control and the course management who obviously have never ridden a bike into a corner at over 200mph. It had nothing to do with coming out a lap late.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Coddy »

The rule of a black flag for not pitting end of lap 9 or 10 must have been in place BEFORE the race started.

You have probably not seen the Eurosport coverage of the race in your neck of the woods.
The commentators (Toby Moodie and Julien Ryder) both instantly said as Marquez passed the pit entry.
"He can't do that". "Black flag, black flag".
This was all said before Marquez had even straightened up the bike to head down the straight to start lap 11.

What Honda are looking at is the rule said "no bike is to do more than 10 laps on any slick or wet tyre".
They are looking to argue that he did NOT complete the 11th lap. His pit garage was before the finish line, so he did not complete 11 laps.
But, they fcuked up.
Did Marquez protest when he got off the bike, no. So he knew they were wrong.
I would actually say the contributing factor missing the correct pit time will have been the fact Marquez had the big moment when he nearly fell off the bike just before the pit entry, and he simply forgot.
Did he know Pedrosa had pitted end of lap 9, therefore at the first opportunity for pitting. Possibly not, as Pedrosa was behind him at he time.

As for jumping the start. Who did?
Yes a jump start should be a penalty, and is.
But the rule for this will be in place before a race

Passing under yellow. Again is penalised.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Gazza »

Coddy wrote:The rule of a black flag for not pitting end of lap 9 or 10 must have been in place BEFORE the race started.

You have obviously not seen the Eurosport coverage of the race.
The commentators (Toby Moodie and Julien Ryder) both instantly said as Marquez passed the pit entry.
"He can't do that". "Black flag, black flag".
This was all said before Marquez had even straightened up the bike to head down the straight to start lap 11.

What <FONT COLOR="#FF00FF">Honda</FONT> are looking at is the rule said "no bike is to do more than 10 laps on any slick or wet tyre".
They are looking to argue that he did NOT complete the 11th lap. His pit garage was before the finish line, so he did not complete 11 laps.
But, they fcuked up.
Did Marquez protest when he got off the bike, no. So he knew they were wrong.
I would actually say the contributing factor missing the correct pit time will have been the fact Marquez had the big moment when he nearly fell off the bike just before the pit entry, and he simply forgot.

As for jumping the start. Who did?
Yes a jump start should be a penalty, and is.

Passing under yellow. Again is penalised.
Here's the ruling
'No rider is permitted to make more than 10 laps.... In normal circumstances this means that the rider must change machine only at the end of lap 9 or lap 10'.
How can you change at the end of lap 10 without doing another lap? The last minute ruling was fluffy and poorly explained to the teams. Repsol Honda weren't the only team to misudnerstand.

Nobody jump started. But had they done so it would have been a drive through (same as passing under a yellow flag). The rules are not consistent.

He didn't forget to come in due to his slide and he didn't know why he was black flagged either (see article below). Honda told him to box and he boxed exactly when he was told. It was on his pit board. Honda fucked up, not Marqez.

None of that matters. What matters is the rules were badly changed. The organisers fucked up by not making the clear enough such that all teams understood. Black flagging was not fair in MY opinion.
Gazza wrote:A bit harsh if you ask me
Most importantly, as a result of all this the fans lost out. Those that pay to watch didn't get to see a full race and then it was even further ruined by the black flag incident.

No I didn't watch Eursport. And you obviously didn't read this article: ;)

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/197261 ... _flag.html
Colin Edwards wrote:Not happy with the black flag decision. First time running this scenario & disqualified. We r not mathematicians... let us race & F off

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Re: Black flag?

Post by missile »

Honda's excuse doesn't fly for me. Pedrosa pitted at end of lap 9 and Marquez at end of lap 11. Obviously one was wrong.

Teams were told and warned of the penalty, so I guess race control had to enforce it. Unfortunately this ruined what could have been a great race.

60 Kph until the end of the pit lane was crazy and as we saw very dangerous. :hippy

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Coddy »

http://youtu.be/hLcTahk17SY

Clearly you see the mechanics with their hands up / waving, indicating towards where Marquez was to come into the pit box as he should have came down pit lane behind Lorenzo. (0:25on the clip).
Clearly you can see the mechanics and the guy on the pit walls disbelief as Marquez goes past.
Now, I'm no lip reader, but the 2 guys with the beards say black flag. (0:35). So, black flag for not pitting end of lap 9 or 10 is well known within Honda and the Marquez side of the garage.

What, sadly not seen is his pit board to see if it said BOX when Lorenzo's did.

What it does prove, of course, the Yamaha is the best sounding.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Gazza »

Ok. So Honda knew all about it, Marc knew all about it. He decided to stay out an extra lap and risk crashing to gain an advantage that didn't exist knowing full well he'd get pulled in and potentially lose the championship should his tyre survive the extra lap.

None is it makes sense, as does the black flag decision. A ride through would have been fairer on everyone, particularly the fans who paid to see a race. Nobody was trying to cheat.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Dickie »

It's all jolly unfair.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by al »

This was his tyre when he came in on the 11th lap -
935134_525201704221866_78720335_n.jpg
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Re: Black flag?

Post by Zathos »

Rules is rules.

Where would we be without rules.......

;)

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Re: Black flag?

Post by al »

Zathos wrote:Rules is rules.

Where would we be without rules.......

;)
France!

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Gazza »

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) wrote:This was his tyre when he came in on the 11th lap -

Looks like it gave him a huge advantage. He should have been disqualified for the season and had all his points taken away.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by Dickie »

The point is that the tyres weren't safe beyond 10 laps, hence the black flag. In fact they probably weren't safe at 10 laps but cancelling the GP or having 2 pitstops wasn't a realistic option.

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Re: Black flag?

Post by missile »

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) wrote:This was his tyre when he came in on the 11th lap -
935134_525201704221866_78720335_n.jpg
Wow, it is amazing that he could complete lap 11 and incredible the speed at which he did riding on the canvas. :worthy

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