AberdeenBikers

Have a look at this:
http://btst.co.uk/PoliceCauseAccident/

The title says "Policeman causes accident"

I am on the fence on this one

The plod seemed to be close to the corner, and the plod vehicles do not seem to be clearly identifiable as plod, no hiviz.

The plod standing on the road in that manner did not give the first biker a lot of time to stop, but he did stop in time.


But, I am sure there are a few lines in the highway code that might say otherwise. https://www.gov.uk/highway-code

I am sure you are required to stop if plod indicates so.

Being able to stop within the distance you can see is always a good idea, cars stopped at a lay-by, a secluded lay-by...there could have been a family stopping for a toilet break, a child could have run out onto the road...but in saying that hopefully a kid would have had more sense that that plod and not have stepped out in front of a moving vehicle.


Regardless, running into the rider in front is never a good move.


The more I think of this case, the more I think plod is in the wrong

He should not have stood in the middle of the road, for his own life expectancy is a loving obvious reason.


I am a very well behaved biker, 'onist, never been stopped this year
But previously I have had a number of discussions with plod over the years, and I am sure they have never stood in the middle of the road to get my attention.

http://btst.co.uk/PoliceCauseAccident/

So, who caused the crash?
The police caused the crash
It was the first bikers fault for stopping too quickly
The second biker was at fault
The third biker was at fault, for riding too close to the second biker and distracting him.

Hmmm.

Ignoring the dumbass plod for a few moments. Let's substitute plod in high vis with a sheep (metaphors not intended of course)

If the first biker saw the sheep and took appropriate action, how come the second biker didn't? In theory he had more time / distance, but the big 'Oh F*ck' moment when the second biker saw the sheep....then realised his mate has stopped in the middle of the road only gave him moments to decide on an escape route. The second biker chose to go left side of his stopped mate, then saw the camera crew standing in his escape route and decided to hang on both brakes, rear end slide and loss of control.

If he had been reading the road he would have passed his mate on the right, or indeed stopped in time.

I would suggest a lack of rider experience / control on the part of the second biker.

Whatever happens you are in charge of your own machine. While there are many mitigating factors here the bulk of the fault is with the second biker.

IMHO

Real fook up this one.
It was a set up for a film, but they fooled it up

Root cause of the crash was plod standing on a bend in poor visibility and not taking into account rider experience/ability, having said that I would not want rider two riding behind me!

Not sure what the regs would be regarding standing out in the middle of a national speed limit road right after a bend in poor visibility but I doubt this method would be taught at the accademy

Considering it wouldn't have happened had Dibble not stepped into the road then it's an open and shut case in my book. Root cause was Dibble, irrespective of the second riders ability or experience.....

Despite the fact that the rider's speedo was reading about 95 mph

+1 to that . Biker 2s view of the road ahead was limited, he could not see policeman. It is not wise to follow the track of the rider in front. IMHO biker 2 ought have been able to stop. Looks like far too much rear and not enough front brake.

I would suggest both of them were far too near the crown of the road going round the corner with oncoming traffic.

40/60 split for me

Policeman at fault as common sense rule not applied and he is prime candidate for a darwin award with that kind of vehicle stop

However

Rider 2 speeding in poor visibility and of course forgetting the golden rule of being able to stop in the distance you can actually see

Rider 2 edges it in my books

Replace plod with a sheep, pothole etc. And see if you come to the same concusion.

The police man was a bit fool hardy in where he positioned himself but the two riders were riding pretty fast in conditions with restricted visabilty with the second rider restricting his vision even further.

I had a couple of close shaves last year and don't have a problem admitting that I was 100% at fault. A lot of bikers seem to ride around blaming others for the danger that they have put themselves in.

I'm sure that most folk who work offshore will have seen the stickers on the mirrors that read "you are looking at the person responsible for your safety". If we can't look out for ourselves then how can we expect others to look out for us?


Sent using paper cups and string.

Sheep are irrelevant. No sheep were there. If there were then it would have been the sheep's fault.

If Dibble hadn't stepped out it wouldn't have happened. Doesn't matter what speed he was doing.

Once Dibble did step out, then it was the riders fault he crashed, due to undue care and attention and speeding. But only because Dibble stepped out.

Gazza wrote:Doesn't matter what speed he was doing.

Not one to ride to the conditions are you Gazza?

Ratz wrote:

Gazza wrote:Doesn't matter what speed he was doing.

Not one to ride to the conditions are you Gazza?

I'm not defending the rider or suggesting that he was riding safely.

I'm just saying that had Dibble not stepped out it wouldn't have happened. That's a 100% certainty. Therefore the only dead certain thing that caused the crash was the irresponsible actions of the Dibble on a bend in poor visibility. Especially when he should be more aware than most of the crazy things motorcyclists do.

Gazza wrote:

Ratz wrote:

Gazza wrote:Doesn't matter what speed he was doing.

Not one to ride to the conditions are you Gazza?

I'm not defending the rider or suggesting that he was riding safely.

I'm just saying that had Dibble not stepped out it wouldn't have happened. That's a 100% certainty. Therefore the only dead certain thing that caused the crash was the irresponsible actions of the Dibble on a bend in poor visibility. Especially when he should be more aware than most of the crazy things motorcyclists do.

See with this is where I was on the fence but technically the cop stopped the first rider safe enough
Second rider if he had been riding to the conditions would have been able to stop no bother

Ride like an idiot and youll die like one

Replace plod with child and who is to blame when you consider that biker 1 stopped?

Again, I can honestly say that I have done the same following Matt down a farm track when he ran wide on a corner. I was very lucky that day that there was a run off and that Matt hadn't fallen.

Ratz wrote:
See with this is where I was on the fence but technically the cop stopped the first rider safe enough
Second rider if he had been riding to the conditions would have been able to stop no bother

Ride like an idiot and youll die like one

I don't think he stopped the first rider safely either. It was an emergency stop and the rider was skilled enough to pull it off.

Jump out in front of a high speed motorcycle like an idiot and die like an idiot.

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) wrote:Replace plod with child and who is to blame when you consider that biker 1 stopped?

Again, I can honestly say that I have done the same following Matt down a farm track when he ran wide on a corner. I was very lucky that day that there was a run off and that Matt hadn't fallen.

Biker 2

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) wrote:Replace plod with child and who is to blame when you consider that biker 1 stopped?

Again, I can honestly say that I have done the same following Matt down a farm track when he ran wide on a corner. I was very lucky that day that there was a run off and that Matt hadn't fallen.

Read all of my posts. I have clearly said that it was the rider's fault he crashed. The root cause was Dibble.

A child or sheep is not at fault due to being unaware of traffic hazards.

Try jumping out in front of a non-speeding bus to stop it and see if the same Dibble thinks you're very smart.

Root cause....


Come on Gazza you know better than that.

Camera crew trying to get a dramatice shot and the plot feeling pressure to comply
Plod management authorising camrea crew to attend scene
Procedures on safe and effective methods to conduct roadside stop.
Trainig of plot to ensure he knew and understood said procedures.

Shall I keep going?

Gazza wrote:[quote="Big Kneed Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian)"]Replace plod with child and who is to blame when you consider that biker 1 stopped?

Again, I can honestly say that I have done the same following Matt down a farm track when he ran wide on a corner. I was very lucky that day that there was a run off and that Matt hadn't fallen.

Read all of my posts. I have clearly said that it was the rider's fault he crashed. The root cause was Dibble.

A child or sheep is not at fault due to being unaware of traffic hazards.

Try jumping out in front of a non-speeding bus to stop it and see if the same Dibble thinks you're very smart.[/quote]
Dibble was one of the hazards not the cause.

It's like saying that the route cause someone getting injured from a fall from height is the ground!

Zathos wrote:Root cause....
Camera crew trying to get a dramatice shot and the plot feeling pressure to comply
Plod management authorising camrea crew to attend scene
Procedures on safe and effective methods to conduct roadside stop.
Trainig of plot to ensure he knew and understood said procedures.
Shall I keep going?

You failed to mention their wives/girlfriends/partners.

If those bikers had caring partners, when the weather is looking that bad the partner should have insisted that they get ridden and not the bike.

Sorted

The bikers would not have been there for that STUPID plod to stand in the middle of the lane when he is holding a device showing him the speed on the oncoming vehicles
A Darwin award in the making

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) wrote: Dibble was one of the hazards not the cause.

It's like saying that the route cause someone getting injured from a fall from height is the ground!

Dibble was a hazard until he jumped in front of a speeding bike. A bike he knew to be speeding. Then he became the immediate cause due to his actions. If we really want to define root cause, then the real root is the money grabbing police state.

Either way, take away any of the contributory causes and it still could have happened. Unless of course you took away Dibble. Then it wouldn't have happened. So he caused it.

Zathos wrote:Root cause....


Come on Gazza you know better than that.

Camera crew trying to get a dramatice shot and the plot feeling pressure to comply
Plod management authorising camrea crew to attend scene
Procedures on safe and effective methods to conduct roadside stop.
Trainig of plot to ensure he knew and understood said procedures.

Shall I keep going?

They are all contributory causes.

We all know that the root cause is always bad supervision. No need to fill in all the boxes. Just go straight from the Event to most senior Supervisor and save hours of investigation.

Gazza wrote:We all know that the root cause is always bad supervision. No need to fill in all the boxes. Just go straight from the Event to most senior Supervisor and save hours of investigation.

But bad supervisors always refuse to believe it was their fault

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) wrote:Replace plod with child and who is to blame when you consider that biker 1 stopped?

Again, I can honestly say that I have done the same following Matt down a farm track when he ran wide on a corner. I was very lucky that day that there was a run off and that Matt hadn't fallen.

Remember it well unfortunately, that was when the motto "don't ride a road by memory" finally stuck with me(also shouldn't have been going as fast as i was). Heading South on the Military Road after the humpback bridge where there are blind crests. I'm sure some of you familiar with the road know which bend and track.

Zathos wrote:
But bad supervisors always refuse to believe it was their fault

You're so right. Bad supervisors are never able to be in more than one place at the same time.