Wheres My Engine Power????

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:15 pm

Hey all

After a great run on sunday and the bike running fine not a problem. i went off to uni 2day about 1pm and the bike started fine not a problem. come about 4pm i left uni and went to start my bike but it was hard to start.. the battery was fine and wasn't flat it was just not firing then finally it started up couffing and spluttering and if the revs dropped to idle the bike would stall. on the way home i had there was just no power in the bike in the pick of the engine from a standing start and even after the bike was moving there was not much power.

i will be checking the plugs and coils for damp getting to them and to see if the spark plugs need changing.

another thought i had was that on sunday when at the glenshee i topped up with some of there petrol at the hotel/cafe and was wondering if it was from that petrol maybe being off. i know a couple of guys on sunday topped up too and was wondering if you have notice any change or strange things to your engines after using that petrol too..

if any of you guys n gals have any ideas for me to try then all advice is welcome

Cheers

:I can't believe it's not butter! :I can't believe it's not butter!

Post by **Gazza** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:26 pm

I do remember Commander Flash filling up at that station with some dodgy fuel a few years ago. Water in it apparently.

However, if it was water you'd have likely seen it on the run home. My best guess is leads/plugs/damp etc.

Post by al » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:40 pm

Your bike is a Jap import so will not have carb heating elements so the symptoms you describe could be carb icing. There is some additive you can add to your fuel that can help prevent it happening or at least reduce the effects.

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian).

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:24 pm

Cheers Gazza n Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian)

i will have a look at the plugs and lead first.... hopefully get some warmer and dryer weather for me to get out and do it..

Will keep posted with how i get on

jbrebel · Post by **jbrebel** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:57 pm

gsxr400rider wrote:Where's my engine power?

Or you could get a bigger bike :I can't believe it's not butter!

Just kidding mate was a cracking sound out of it on sunday

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:00 am

jbrebel wrote:
gsxr400rider wrote:Where's my engine power?
Or you could get a bigger bike :I can't believe it's not butter!

Just kidding mate was a cracking sound out of it on sunday

I can't believe it's not butter! :I can't believe it's not butter! mmmmm i think later down the line i might upgrade to a 600 or 750 (build up my NCB first

). i do like the little 400 pocket rockets even tho i maybe a little bit big for it but still for the size of rider i am it has still got good acceleration.

I can't believe it's not butter! the exhaust on it is all standard and i have been thinking about putting an aftermarket can on and making it a 4 in 1 but now that your the 2nd person to comment on the sound i think i will prob leave it alone just now

hopefully catch you out on another run soon

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:28 pm

UPDATE

Right i have taken the spark plugs out and gave them all a clean up they didn't seem to bad. i check and made sure that all the plugs where sparking and they seemed again all fine. i managed to get the bike to tick over so i could get the engine warmed up but even once warmed up there was no power / hardly any in the engine when the throttle was opened up. it is sounds like its choking itself up personnaly and i think it might be some of the tappets have either seezed or they have gone out of time. and i'm getting some faint white smoke coming out of the exhaust which i have read somewhere this could be caused from the tappets and also i can head a tapping sound like the same as an old car where the tappets are going. but at the end of the day i'm not mechanic.

but until me bikes well again. thats it grounded

fido · Post by **fido** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:53 pm

Is it water cooled? If so it could be head gasket.

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:42 pm

fido wrote:Is it water cooled? If so it could be head gasket.

yeah its water cooled. is there any other tell tails signs that could point to it being the head gasket...

metallninja · Post by **metallninja** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:46 pm

Aye, if ye remove the expansion tank cap (carefully) you can sometimes see the water pulsing from the affects of comression forces from yer cylinders. You may also expect to lose the coolant from the reservoir. I`d check the level more often till you get the bike fixed.

IZINBARD · Post by **IZINBARD** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:40 pm

Took me so long typing this Stu beat me to it.

Or a dropped valve

Cam Chain Tensioner would make a fair bit of noise as would jumped valve timing.

Whip your plugs out again and see if you are getting compression in all 4 cylinders, any doubt and get a proper test done with the right gear. This will point to head gasket, valves or rings. Rings can be eliminated by putting a squirt of oil into each cylinder prior to doing a second test, once you have numbers written down for each cylinder from the first one. If no improvement is seen in the psi (good is around 175 to 185 psi but it could be as low as 130) then the rings are OK and you can look else where.

look to the rad header tank, is it under much higher pressure than normal, a dealer might lend you a special rad cap with a psi gauge attached to it, normal rad pressure when hot is around 13 to 18 psi. If head gasket is blown it will be putting the cylinder pressure into water jacket and blowing water out of the header tank, if you take the rad cap off and run the engine you will see the water overflow, about 100ml is normal due to expansion, if you get a lot more than that or you start getting bubbles probably is a blown head gasket. You might get oil in the water as well, you could also get water in the oil, is the oil level going up in the sump, check.

Be more worried if (Hmm expensive either way) you have no top end noise at all from the valve train, that could indicate very tight clearances and possible loss of compression due to valves not seating properly and / or burned exhaust valves. Also a lot of spitting back through the carbs.

If the compression is OK and the radiator is not being overly pressurised and overflowing and you have no water in the oil in the sump it is more likely to be muck in the carbs blocking the main jets that is causing the problem, along with the carbs icing up due to local weather conditions.

Before you strip the rocker cover off and start to tear the engine to bits, pull the carbs off and drop out the float bowls and check to see if there is anything nasty lurking, dirt, muck from old fuel deposits, water etc.
If there are even a few tiny specks of dirt in the bowls whip the tops off of the carbs and remove the main jets, Do not poke any thing into them to clean them, use compressed air You will have to get a dealer to balance the carbs after you put it all back together 20 quid 1/2 hour job, if after doing all of that it still won't run right, then I'm fucked if I know what to suggest.

Best of luck anyway, too loving cold to be dicking about with this sort of thing at the moment.

Izz,

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:24 am

Cheers Izz

Thanks for the break down of the steps to take to try and solve my problem, i till take each step as they come and try not to over look any aspects.

eager i am to whip the top off the engine to look at the rockers and stuff and wonder where the tapping is coming from. i'm not too keen on doing it by myself as

A:) i have only worked on a simple single cylinder 2 stroke Yamaha YB100 b4 (me first road bike a few years back) when then i had to change and put in a new clutch and i had a good old haynes manual and my old man to look over and help with advice.

B:) I do have some sorta manual for my GSXR 400 but its mainly in Japanese and heynes don't do a manual for my bike

.

and C:)

What the hell would i be looking for and to adjust I can't believe it's not butter!

don't get me wrong i would love to get down to it have have a go meself just as long as i has someone with a bit more experiance and knowing what to look for was there to lend a hand if needed.. Nothing like fixing a problem yourself :I can't believe it's not butter!

i remember when b4 i moved upto into aberdeen i used to have a ZX4R and i was sorting something out with the engine I can't believe it's not butter! remember this was my first 4 cylinder bike and i was taking out the spark plugs and i took all the ht-leads off and took out the plugs and put new ones in and i put all the leads back on and the bike wasn't running right so i was umming and arring and i finally got some advice from my brother-in-law and he said... " you did put the leads back on the right cylinder you took them off from....

"

me being a plum put the leads on willy nilly not realising that the plugs run in a certian firing order to follow the movement of the pistons I can't believe it's not butter!

But i wont tell you what happen to the bike in the end as its a sad story

to how a great ZX4R ending up in the scrap heap in the sky

cus a young foolish rider never got the problems fixed.

so i'm not going down that path again

but i will catch a dry and warmish day and i will spend some time looking over the bike with what everyone has said..

Cheers again

IZINBARD · Post by **IZINBARD** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:50 am

If you are going to wait to fix it drain the water and oil out of it,

Oil in the cooling system will rot the hoses, and water in the oil will totally f*ck up the bearings/rotating parts in the gearbox as well as start corrosion on the big end bolts and crankshaft journals mains and big ends. You can not leave it like that, you have to check it out and make sure that neither of those scenarios is present in your bike.

Forget about adjusting anything, carry out the steps to check the compression. Once you have an answer for compression OK, head gasket OK/not OK, you will be able to make the next decision, hopefully the compression and head gasket are all right, If you have doubt about stripping the bottoms and tops off the carbs, then pull the bank of carbs off and take then round to Ecosse Honda, they will be able to do it for you, though once the bank of carbs is off, it is only a case of taking out the 4 or 5 little bolts per bowl and a light tap with a toffee hammer to pop them loose, the tops are 4 screws per top, and the main jets are a flat Gay Blade number 2 engineers screwdriver.

Another place to get help and advise is the http://www.400greybike.co.uk forum, your bike is covered in there. On the home page Top left-hand side, light blue box right under navigation, forum, you will probably have to register and donate to get access to the for sale section.

Izz,

dude900 · Post by **dude900** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:29 am

just open up the engine and start hitting with half pound mash hammer if that dont help get a one pound mash hammer and try again ,, I can't believe it's not butter! cant get mutch worse ,,,,I can't believe it's not butter! only joking matey if u need to move the bike without starting it up gees a shout ill do my best to help u ....

baldy · Post by **baldy** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:00 am

Have you checked the choke ? sounds like you are running very rich

could be the cable snapped and left it wide open ?

Nick

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:26 pm

baldy wrote:Have you checked the choke ? sounds like you are running very rich could be the cable snapped and left it wide open ?

Nick

The choke cable looks to be working ok

cheers

IZINBARD · Post by **IZINBARD** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:50 pm

manuals You might find something in there that is similar, or try in here

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:18 pm

IZINBARD wrote:manuals You might find something in there that is similar, or try in here

Cheers Izz i will have a browse through them

dude900 · Post by **dude900** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:34 pm

see u thank others for there input .I can't believe it's not butter! not trying mine i take it,

Post by al » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:57 pm

That's nothing, I went into the garage to take a look at my TT today and half the engine was missing!!!!

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:59 pm

dude900 wrote:see u thank others for there input .I can't believe it's not butter! not trying mine i take it,

I think if i get to that stage of

as no other possiablitles will fix the problem then i may well try that technique I can't believe it's not butter!

Ian Bright · Post by **Ian Bright** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:01 pm

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) ( Super Nanny ) wrote:That's nothing, I went into the garage to take a look at my TT today and half the engine was missing!!!!

Aye typical problem with an Audi...I can't believe it's not butter! :I can't believe it's not butter!

Post by al » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:03 pm

Mr Spock wrote:
Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) ( Super Nanny ) ( Super Nanny ) wrote:That's nothing, I went into the garage to take a look at my TT today and half the engine was missing!!!!
Aye typical problem with an Audi...I can't believe it's not butter! :I can't believe it's not butter!

I should clarify that, the TT in question is a Triumph TT600. :I can't believe it's not butter!

blagger · Post by **blagger** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:05 pm

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) ( Super Nanny ) wrote:That's nothing, I went into the garage to take a look at my TT today and half the engine was missing!!!!

I can't believe it's not butter! just like loosing your house keys....

mmmm

now where did i lay down that other half of the engine. i knew i had it last night when i came home from the pub I can't believe it's not butter!

Ian Bright · Post by **Ian Bright** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:07 pm

Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) ( Super Nanny ) wrote:
Mr Spock wrote:
Big Kneed Al (master of the emergency stop & "stand up" comedian) ( Super Nanny ) ( Super Nanny ) ( Super Nanny ) wrote:That's nothing, I went into the garage to take a look at my TT today and half the engine was missing!!!!
Aye typical problem with an Audi...I can't believe it's not butter! :I can't believe it's not butter!
I should clarify that, the TT in question is a Triumph TT600. :I can't believe it's not butter!

REALLY :I can't believe it's not butter! :I can't believe it's not butter!

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Wheres My Engine Power????

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